I feel so trapped. I want Al to come home for so many reasons. Most of you know why it is better for him to be here.
When Al went to the nursing home he had money of his own. This was by law made to pay his room and board while he was in there. When he ran out of money, then the facility applied for Medicaid on his behalf.
I had not worked with this part of Medicare and was being led by shadows trying to understand. There were many papers that had to be filed. Bank papers had to be submitted. Medical papers had to be proven.
At this one particular bank I had opened it myself. It was a credit union and in order to have a checking account, you first had to open a savings account so the two accounts could link. The money used was mine but the account had to be put in my name and Al’s name since he was going to have a checking account. No savings account, no checking account was the way it worked.
When all the paper work had been turned in Medicaid noticed that I had not turned in the savings account. I didn’t deliberately keep it from them. I just had always considered it my money used to open his account. That money was never touched and it had the minimum in it to keep it alive.
Back in February I got the notice and was forced to turn that account over although I explained it was just my savings to link to his account. It didn’t matter to anyone what I said. Al’s name was on it and that’s what counted.
Now today I find out that he is no longer liable for his stay there but the January bill which the facility thought would be covered my Medicaid was not, because of that savings account, it was now over limitations to qualify by $8.00. For an $8.00 over limit he is now responsible for almost $7,000.00
Now we are responsible for $6800.00 that was charged for January. The facility is blaming me. She told me on the phone that although Al is no longer responsible, I am supposed to still continue to give them the money that I have been giving them monthly.
The facility was getting paid by Medicare and also keeping the money that I was paying too. These past three months I thought the money I was giving them was paying off that big debt, but they were using it, or keeping it until the letter came stating he is now no longer responsible. She told me Medicare demanded that Al still pay the amount until the approval came through. They could have been placing that monthly check on his debt, but they didn’t. This was their choice too. Yes, he had to still pay but they decided what to do with it. That bill would have almost been half paid off and now it is still a full debt.
So now Al is actually entitled to keep his money but has to pay back January. But, when he comes home he will need things here that he would have received there, and this facility still wants that money.
So now I am not working so I can care for Al. He will come home with needs that I won’t be able to use his funds for and I just don’t know what to do. As long as he stays in the nursing home, the debt is being paid off. When he comes home they still want the money.
I usually don’t discuss bills on my blogs but I am sick at heart. Do I leave Al there not cared for properly in order to pay the bill? He wants to come home so bad and I don’t want him to die there, so I want him to come home too.
I wish I knew how to raise that kind of money for him. Although I am not responsible for his debts I can not afford this either. I would have to leave him there about seven months in order to pay it off. I feel terrible because I am bringing a dollar bill over Al’s life.
All I can think of is I can’t afford all his needs when he comes home without me having to go out to work to make money since they are demanding the money even after he is here at home. So then why have him come home if I can’t care for him. Oh I wish I could zap up the money somehow.
I keep going back to the beginning when they demanded all of Al’s money until he was broke. They know without a doubt he has no money. I was going to continue to pay his funeral bill until he came home and then let his monthly check pay for it. Now I am in fear of him even losing that big amount that we have paid his prepaid funeral. I already tried checking into cancelling the bill but he would not even get one tenth back.
What am I going to do? How could I ever tell Al he can’t come home? How am I going to pay off this huge debt if he comes home? I am sick at heart.
I don’t know if you have access to “Legal Aid” near you or something likethat, but it looks t me like you need a lawyer. Perhaps someone else who reads this list can help you find some free legal resources. I don’t know enough about it, but near some larger cities, there used to be low cost lawyerss for people who couldn’t afford to pay. Maybe ask your county agency on aging.
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it just makes me sick at heart. I don’t want him to die in that nursing home and they know he has no money…….thanks for the advice. I keep thinking about how people raise money on Facebook for surgeries etc, but this isn’t an emergency of life and death, so I hestitate
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I agree about the attorney, I think you should discuss with them. Blessings and hugs.
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i can try but i don’t have money for an attorney and neither does Al
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Is there a cost for legal aid?
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I don’t know but I know there is months to wait for answers from it
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It has been our experience too that the nursing homes will stoop at nothing to get money. Lots of prayers for you.
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well this place is the same way
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Terry I kind of have my back against the wall over here as well. All we can do at this point is to pray and give it over to God to handle and just keep haningon until the solution appears.
Ivonne
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that’s all I feel we have left is prayer. it just makes me feel so sad. i feel like they don’t care anything about Al. they even refuse to let him have his funeral payment. they are heartless and I want to lash out
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It is time to talk to an attorney Terry, you need professional advice and perhaps a letter from your attorney would make the nursing home rethink their position. God bless you, it seems as if it is always a battle doesn’t it? Don’t let them break you down my friend, sometimes you have to go on the offence.
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I am scared Loopy. Neither of us have money for an attorney
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$150-$200 for the initial consultation is probably what it would cost, call around and ask for a quote, they can probably advise you whether they can do anything or not then, perhaps they will even send a letter to the nursing home and believe me, they can not afford to ignore it. Some attorneys will even handle a case on payments. It is worth it just to find out your options my friend!
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ok thanks Loopy
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I think so
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I mean I think it is better to talk to an attorney
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I am
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Aw Terry I am so saddened by this. I wish there was something I could do to help. Every time I read about the trials you are going through I pray you have the strength to get through them 😦 Hugs to you and your brother x
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there just has to be an answer
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God is there with you. He will show you in time when you are ready 😦 unfortunately we live on his timetable not ours no matter how much we want something, everything happens at a certain time for a certain reason. 😦 x
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God is here with me but he is not with the facility
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This goes over my head …. Why should you pay them if he stays at home, but you have to seek help like as your friends had said here. You need professional help here. This doesn’t make sense in my book. Don’t you have legal aid cover in your home insurance? There is legal aid that works for free – that you can ask for advice. So sorry, for your situation. You have to sort this out first; before you get stressed over that you’re not able to take Al home or not. One step at the time. You have to find out what options .
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you have … the comment left home before I was finished.
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ok I will look into a legal aid of some type
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Yes, please do … because it doesn’t reads right to me.
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I wish I knew what to say. I’m sorry it just sucks.
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I thought it would help opening up about it and getting it out there but it didn’t. now I feel like a fool spilling my guts about bills
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Why do you feel like a fool? We all spill our guts on here! This is scary stuff! xo
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I guess because it has to do with money
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Terry, I agree you need a lawyer. Do you have a church you go to regularly? Churches often have lawyers that attend there. Maybe you could contact them and see if there is one. Your circumstances may aid in their legal counsel.
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good idea, thank you so much !
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Not to be redundant but just to say I agree about the legal aid. This is an overwhelming decision to make and you deserve to have some help so that you understand clearly your options. I would go to the computer and type in Legal Aid and see what comes up in your area. Also Angie’s List might have some suggestions.
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thank you for good ideas Sheila!!
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More ideas Terry. Call your local agency for disabilities. Call Medicaid office. Call your congressional representative’s office. This comes under constituent services. Similarly, call your governor’s office and see if they can help you. Spread a wide net and see what you can find. Was it the nursing home or Medicaid who told you that you were $8 over the limit to qualify? If it was the nursing home, then try the Medicaid office or even the welfare office. Someone has to be willing to help! But most of all, finding a lawyer is key, and the churchs is a good idea as maybe the church office has contacts for you to call.
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ok thank you very much for great ideas. I will start tomorrow! the nursing home told me I was over
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Terry this # will give you what you need for legal aide 1-800-952-1822. Also check out http://www.probonolawyers.org/ this covers every state. I sure hope this helps. know in most states if the facility is covered by Medicaire or Medicaide they accept under contract with those governmental agencies what ever is paid by them with NO charge to the patient. I think you might be being scammed. Better check this out as I think the fish in this barrel is beginning to stink more everyday!
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ok I wrote the number down and I have the link. One thing that keeps going over and over in my mind, is why didn’t they take the last two or three payments and put it on that back amount they say he owes? why did they just keep it when they were being paid? or at least this is what it seems to me. thank u so much. I will call tomorrow morning.
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It’s probably not a possibility but do you think the Parkinson Society could give you some advice… or your representative in your area of the government…That’s where I would go but I am in Canada and not the U.S. You can only do what you can… and if Al hasn’t been given a date when he’s coming you’ll just have to tell him there are complications getting the house ready…that you want it to be just right for him… orrrrrr what about a news story? though you probably don’t want to go there….It just popped into my mind because sometimes on our news they will carry a story of someone who has been caught in the middle of a ‘system’….Diane
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you have good ideas Diane. I will contact the PD society and maybe even the news
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I was also thinking about the “troubleshooter” type column in many newspapers. Also some television news also has that type of reporting. Look in all directions, as there should be help out there.
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You have been so helpful, bless you
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I just saw the advice and number given to you above so that would seem your best bet to start..Diane
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I have them here ready to call first thing in the morning
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Oh Terry, *hugs* I would agree with the comments on legal consul. I also would suggest raising some funds online. I know it’s a lot to ask, but I asked people to help me cover the cost of my cat’s surgery (he has some teeth removed) everyone has unexpected bills and needs help from time to time. I would highly recommend using youcaring.com. They are a free website you can make a profile on and manage a fundraiser to collect funds to help pay for the bills. People can pay through their paypal accounts (another free service). I’ve helped people who have cats and dogs in need as well as I’ve gotten funds. Don’t be ashamed to ask for help. *hugs*
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I sure will do this!! I was wondering if there was someway to raise money for this bill!!!!! bless you!
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did you have people put money into your pay pal account? if so did pay pal charge you? is youcaring really free? I read through the site and it says it is, but many do and then you find hidden fees
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So thankful that you shared and got all this wonderful advice! Praying for you , Terry, as you have to just keep on fighting. God bless you!
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thanks Debbie
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ahh…. i hate this for you. here is the problem, when you filled out the paperwork for the nursing home it should have been explained to you that all accounts with his name be reported. i worked with this program for about 2 yrs. and i understand why the rule is there but i understand why you didn’t report it. all the worker can do is follow the policy. the worker has absolutely no power to change policy. i used to spend my days trying to explain policy to those in need but just like you it wasn’t intentional.
the nursing home can say whatever they want but you are not responsible for this and no matter what they say don’t let them bully you. the worker had to deny you due to the acct. but the nursing home has not behaved with good intentions. Al has no money so they are going to work on you.
i am so sorry this happened and wish somehow this could all go away. just try to gather your thoughts and don’t let yourself get overwhelmed. easy to say right? you can do this girl, you have made it this far and you can do this. i know this sounds counter-intuitive but do something for yourself now. if you aren’t taking care of yourself you can’t expect to think clearly and take care of everyone else.
sending hugs and wishes for peace of heart
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thank u so much for the support my friend. I am making progress today on this!
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This is an area I don’t comprehend — finances have always been a mystery to me, except the very basic stuff. It sounds so much like the facility is doing something wrong, but again, I don’t know much about this sort of thing. The other ideas on here have all sounded good, and I hope some of them are of help to you — it sounds very much like you are being scammed by the facility.
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I am following a lot of people’s advice on here now and am making contacts. thanks for being here Becky!
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Terry,
I just recently got out of the hospital, and I was very up front with them, and told them I don’t have the money to pay the debt. They gave me some paperwork to fill out, and after reviewing it, they wrote my bill off.
I’m not trying to be nosy. I just want to help, so without knowing details, if Al has no money, you, as his sister, are not responsible for paying his debts. Also, any income that Al has from Social Security, or whatever, must first be applied to his immediate healthcare needs, and if there is anything left over after that, then you could make installments to the facility. This should not deter you from bringing Al home, if you are able to handle his daily needs.
I had a physician’s office call me today, and I was up front with her, explaining that due to health issues, I have been out of work since Sept. Therefore, she agreed to accept $10 monthly, until my debt is paid, and if I am unable to afford that, please call and let them know, and they will waive my monthly payment until I am able to begin paying it again… It is work, but you should be able to work something out, and again, if you and Al believe that he is better off at home, then bring him home.
The facility cannot force you to pay Al’s bills, nor can they take more from him than he is able to live off of. After you are settled in your spirit, call the billing office at the facility, and make arrangements that Al can afford. If he can only afford $10 monthly, then tell them so, and do not let them force you to agree to anything more than you are able to pay. After you have finished talking to them, write a letter to whomever it was you spoke to in the billing office, and cc the Administrator and the social worker. Again, they will try to talk you into paying $50, or $100 or whatever amount each month. If this is not feasible, DO NOT agree to it. State what Al is able to afford, and agree to no more.
Plan to bring Al home as before, if this is what you and he want. They can’t force you to make him stay there.
Much love, and I hope this was helpful!
Cheryl
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I was told that if he indeed does owe the bill payments can be made and that they can not take his entire check each month.
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I woke up thinking about you this morning. I am wondering if this is Medicare or Medicaid as you mention both in your post. They are two separate programs. Medicare had to give us a WRITTEN notice in advance when they refused to cover dad in his nursing home after a 5 days. And dad was entitled to file a protest to which they only had a few days to respond. Did you get written notice that Medicare wouldn’t cover Al and why? Seems like they are neglecting to tell Al all his rights. And yes, you are NOT responsible for Al’s debts unless you signed saying you would be. Good Luck!
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no I never received a notice that Medicare would not pay. It was when he was going through the process of getting Medicaid. He was 8 dollars over causing the month of January to not be paid, I am assuming Medicare doesn’t cover any nursing home care? since the facility is saying he is responsible for the entire bill?
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Terry, Medicare will pay for a limited amount of Nursing Home Care, if I was you I would contact them and see if the first hundred days were eligible. http://www.medicareinteractive.org/
I do know that it is time sensitive so it would be a good idea to check quickly!
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Hi loopy! I have nominated you for The Sunshine Award!!!
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Thank you Terry, and I appreciate it greatly my friend!
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I called and they won’t pay anything because he didn’t go from hospital to nursing home direct
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Medicare covers some nursing home care based on specific criteria. Must be on Medicare to start with. Must be discharged from a hospital to a nursing home and must require skillled nursing a specific numbers of hours per week or physical therapy. It is usuallly after surgery or heart atttack or something like that. Then Medicare covers up to 100 days.
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Hello my dear friend, I have nominated you for the Sunshine Award!!!
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Thank you, Terry! We can all use some more sunshine in our lives! And congratulations to you on this award.
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thank you so much my friend!!!
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thank u so much!!! I hope you enjoy your award!!!
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this is all true, and Al was medicare, but he went from home to nursing home. that was the catch, so they won’t pay
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Lifting you up in prayer, Terry. I’m not the brightest on this financial stuff so I’d love to give you some awesome answer but I am not educated on it. It looks like you’ve received a lot of good advice from other comments here. All I would add is what you already know, but just a reminder…that God does supernatural things, when natural things aren’t enough. He does make miracles happen. I pray for your miracle, that a path will open up for you and Al that is peaceful and good for both of you. God bless, my friend.
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God can definitely work this all out for Al. Al doesn’t deserve this mess and this is one time I am glad I speak and fight for him. I have not told him about this. He would not understand
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You’re doing great Terry. I’ve said it before, Al is blessed to have such a great sister!
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thank you Brian
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The entire Medicaid/Social Security System is so complicated; it is not up to you to figure out what’s up or what’s down. DON’T BE AT THE MERCY OF WHAT THE NURSING HOME IS TELLING YOU. Try the legal aid phone number(s) provided from an earlier response and/or call the Indiana citizen advocacy group called: United Senior Action 317-687-3659.
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thank you. I am working on it
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WTF? Please get legal advice asap Terry – sending love your way….
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working on it!!!!!! thanks
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does it ever stop??? …definitely legal help…There has to be a way…
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you know i ask myself that over and over, is it ever going to end???
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I don’t understand all the American system with health etc, it seems so difficult and expensive. I agree with everyone else, see if you can get help from alawyer they might know a way out. The whole thing totally sucks! Terry I wished I could help you in a way! hugs
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I started making progress today, finding a few answers. Will be glad when I know all the facts hopefully soon. Thanks Ute
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All the advice sounds good to me. I think that you should also try to talk to a news reporter, if nothing else, hopefully some people will be informed. I know how you feel about sharing your bill concerns, but it is good that you did. As you share your concerns, you are also sharing some valuable information. Some of the comments indicate that several of us had no idea of certain procedures and pitfalls in the nursing home industry.
One year I had an issue that I took to an attorney which I got out of the yellow pages. He drafted a letter to the people with whom I had the dispute. It only cost a $100. By the time I got home, the people my attorney contacted were calling and offering to pay me. I don’t know if your situation will be that simple, but I don’t believe that it will be expensive to obtain legal advice.
Please keep us informed as God works it out in your favor. Praying for you…
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Wow! that is awesome how that was taken care of. I have reached out through phone calls to certain authorities. Now I am waiting for call backs. If I hear nothing by Monday afternoon, I will call back
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I am praying the Lord works this out in the best way possible for you. Anything I can think of has already been covered in the above comments. Just remember, you are not the one responsible for Al’s bills. Most hospitals and nursing homes have special “write off” funds available through the government to help them with the bills that patients cannot pay.
May the Lord bless you and continue to give you wisdom as you check these other sources for information and guidance.
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thank you Rob. According to this facility there is nothing but paying the bill that helps. I have started to make contacts but am waiting on call backs
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Prayers that God will work this out for you. An attorney is definitely called for. Most entities do not like to deal with them and will ease up if not actually back down.
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I have begun making a start on this, and will continue tomorrow on Monday. I pray a lot that miracles will happen but in the mean time I will do whatever I can to help Al out
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